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weareallfromearth: meretremfuit: osuphantom: saltycoffee: chiripepe: here-lies-andalusia: bearsimdisappointedin: you know whats worse than tumbears?  redditbears. On one of the internet’s most popular, and notorious, sites, a new community is bringing together White gay men with old fashioned tastes internalized homophobia and a penchant for misogyny. I fixed it. Thank you :D Slow the fuck down. This is more of this bullshit knee-jerk “masculine gay men interested in discussing manly stuff amongst themselves” = misogyny and internalized homophobia bullshit. Uh-uh. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: To say that masculine gay men must have internalized homophobia is itself painfully homophobic; it implies that gay men are naturally more feminine than straight men, and to act otherwise would be to defy one’s true nature. While there is nothing wrong with being a feminine gay man, to assume that one gender expression is natural and the norm is wrong. If you are a gay man and believe this, you are not helping yourself. If you are not a gay man and you believe this, you are a shit ally and you need to stop. It’s not wrong for us to struggle against stereotypes, and one way for us to do that is to have the more masculine ones among us also point out that they exist. By showing that there is variety in our community, we allow ourselves to be seen as not just a cliche but actual humans by the world at large; not just the masculine ones, but all of us by virtue of the fact that now people know that they have to pay some fucking attention to actually know what we’re like before resorting to a tired cliche. “Maybe this guy likes drag and boxing! Maybe this one likes old cars and Cher. Maybe it’s he’s more feminine, maybe he’s more masculine, maybe it’s a mix, LET’S FIND OUT” By the way, about the misogyny thing - and again, I’ve covered this before so sorry for people who follow me and have to see this again - labeling a lack of feminine traits and a desire to let it be known misogynistic is not only stupid but potentially damaging, because like the homophobia accusation you’re connecting the quality of enjoying stereotypically feminine pursuits with womanhood in and of itself. This is also wrong, as it reinforces gender roles. And nobody should be stuck in a gender role because that sucks ass.   By the way, I actually took a look at this subreddit and tried to find anything devious about it - maybe something condemning feminine gay men in there or something in the official rules and such. What I found was this: So uh. The people who run it pretty clearly are fine with having any given set of interests or being on any part of the masculinity-femininity spectrum, they just want to make sure the group stays on topic. FEMME SHAMING! INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA! MISOGYNY!!!!11!! (Side note: Is here-lies-andalusia implying that nonwhite gay men can’t be masculine? Because I’ve met plenty of guys down here who fit the “gaybro” mold and like a little time with others like them here and there. Hey, according to Redd’s standards even though I’m pale as fuck the fact that I’m Cuban makes me an oppressed PoC, so that must be embarrassing for them) Thank you saltycoffee! Bless you! Homosexuality is NOT something you can box into a certain set of interests or behaviors and the person attacking these men for starting a community where they feel comfortable and welcomed is disgusting. This here-lies-andalusia person seems like the type of judgmental asshole that makes me despise the gay community.  On the topic of Bears. Bears usually are the mocked and disliked minority in the gay community. They don’t fit into the stereotypes and generally have to face more feminine gay men attacking them for their looks or interests. That’s the purpose for this community; so gay men can finally be in a place where they feel they belong since the larger LGBT community rejected them. I’ve been around the bear community a lot and usually get placed there as an younger kind of bear (or and “Otter” as it’s described). Never have I ever seen a bear attack or ridicule a more feminine man at all.  Cut the judgmental crap out and stop attacking people from creating a community where they feel welcomed…assholes.  Look, we all know (well, most of my followers would I imagine) that there are a lot of expressions of masculinity and femininity that can be toxic, but that doesn’t mean that either expression (especially when confounded by factors like non-normative sexuality) are inherently or destined to be bad, as this commentary so aptly points out! This looks so far like an excellent place for people to form community and fight stereotypes to me. Nuance motherfuckers, do you speak it. Not going to pretend I HAVEN’T seen internalised misogyny from bears, but I still think this is a worthwhile space and people have been jumping to some shitty conclusions.
Zoom

weareallfromearth:

meretremfuit:

osuphantom:

saltycoffee:

chiripepe:

here-lies-andalusia:

bearsimdisappointedin:

you know whats worse than tumbears? 

redditbears.

On one of the internet’s most popular, and notorious, sites, a new community is bringing together White gay men with old fashioned tastes internalized homophobia and a penchant for misogyny.

I fixed it.

Thank you :D

Slow the fuck down. This is more of this bullshit knee-jerk “masculine gay men interested in discussing manly stuff amongst themselves” = misogyny and internalized homophobia bullshit.

Uh-uh.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: To say that masculine gay men must have internalized homophobia is itself painfully homophobic; it implies that gay men are naturally more feminine than straight men, and to act otherwise would be to defy one’s true nature. While there is nothing wrong with being a feminine gay man, to assume that one gender expression is natural and the norm is wrong. If you are a gay man and believe this, you are not helping yourself. If you are not a gay man and you believe this, you are a shit ally and you need to stop. It’s not wrong for us to struggle against stereotypes, and one way for us to do that is to have the more masculine ones among us also point out that they exist. By showing that there is variety in our community, we allow ourselves to be seen as not just a cliche but actual humans by the world at large; not just the masculine ones, but all of us by virtue of the fact that now people know that they have to pay some fucking attention to actually know what we’re like before resorting to a tired cliche. “Maybe this guy likes drag and boxing! Maybe this one likes old cars and Cher. Maybe it’s he’s more feminine, maybe he’s more masculine, maybe it’s a mix, LET’S FIND OUT”

By the way, about the misogyny thing - and again, I’ve covered this before so sorry for people who follow me and have to see this again - labeling a lack of feminine traits and a desire to let it be known misogynistic is not only stupid but potentially damaging, because like the homophobia accusation you’re connecting the quality of enjoying stereotypically feminine pursuits with womanhood in and of itself. This is also wrong, as it reinforces gender roles. And nobody should be stuck in a gender role because that sucks ass.

 

By the way, I actually took a look at this subreddit and tried to find anything devious about it - maybe something condemning feminine gay men in there or something in the official rules and such.

What I found was this:

So uh. The people who run it pretty clearly are fine with having any given set of interests or being on any part of the masculinity-femininity spectrum, they just want to make sure the group stays on topic.

FEMME SHAMING! INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA! MISOGYNY!!!!11!!

(Side note: Is here-lies-andalusia implying that nonwhite gay men can’t be masculine? Because I’ve met plenty of guys down here who fit the “gaybro” mold and like a little time with others like them here and there. Hey, according to Redd’s standards even though I’m pale as fuck the fact that I’m Cuban makes me an oppressed PoC, so that must be embarrassing for them)

Thank you saltycoffee! Bless you!

Homosexuality is NOT something you can box into a certain set of interests or behaviors and the person attacking these men for starting a community where they feel comfortable and welcomed is disgusting. This here-lies-andalusia person seems like the type of judgmental asshole that makes me despise the gay community. 

On the topic of Bears. Bears usually are the mocked and disliked minority in the gay community. They don’t fit into the stereotypes and generally have to face more feminine gay men attacking them for their looks or interests. That’s the purpose for this community; so gay men can finally be in a place where they feel they belong since the larger LGBT community rejected them. I’ve been around the bear community a lot and usually get placed there as an younger kind of bear (or and “Otter” as it’s described). Never have I ever seen a bear attack or ridicule a more feminine man at all. 

Cut the judgmental crap out and stop attacking people from creating a community where they feel welcomed…assholes. 

Look, we all know (well, most of my followers would I imagine) that there are a lot of expressions of masculinity and femininity that can be toxic, but that doesn’t mean that either expression (especially when confounded by factors like non-normative sexuality) are inherently or destined to be bad, as this commentary so aptly points out! This looks so far like an excellent place for people to form community and fight stereotypes to me. Nuance motherfuckers, do you speak it.

Not going to pretend I HAVEN’T seen internalised misogyny from bears, but I still think this is a worthwhile space and people have been jumping to some shitty conclusions.

weareallfromearth: paradelle: crossedwires: niqaeli: I admit, I don’t know Cho that well, so I am glad there are other readings to be had! And if he is just calling it out simply because he’s tired of it and he feels comfortable doing so even on his own films now, I think that’s fantastic. There’s certainly plenty for him to be calling out. Heh. Well, I don’t know John Cho either. But he has talked about race & representation before* (and not in a ‘we’re all human, it doesn’t matter’ way), so it’s not completely ‘out of character’ for him to bring it up. I think it probably would be easier on him if he didn’t say anything, but I’m glad he does. *Re Harold & Kumar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHEkLBZI1IM 4:07 mark): If you have a Korean and an Indian guy as your leads, you must address race at some point in the movie. You must, because the audience is noting it, really. The other thing is, I think, comedy at its best, treads in taboo waters a little bit. It has to have that transgressive quality to it, and race is the biggest taboo in America. I mean, people are very reluctant to talk about race and yet when you do jokes about race, uh, that work, people are very happy to release tension and laugh about it. But it has been interesting. I’ll make an observation. During the first tour for the first movie, we were talking about race all the time with journalists. It was almost like a process— looking back, the first movie was more concerned with race, but we talked about it so much, I felt that it was in a way…a way of justifying our presence in a motion picture.And from an interview in 2009 http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/090703/article.asp?parentID=110145&gt:JC: I recall from the Harold and Kumar movies is my struggle with the advertisers. APA: What happened there? JC: There was all this racial humor in the movie, and the advertising department wanted to say “Starring the Asian guy in American Pie, and the Indian guy from Van Wilder…” and they did go with that, and they submitted that to me for approval, and I said, “I don’t like it.” They asked me why, and I explain it to them, and that was tricky because it’s difficult explaining to my own representatives, why that didn’t jibe with me, because everyone kind of felt like it was keeping in tone with the movie. And I said, “I don’t like it. We’re poking fun at racism in the movie all the time, but it puts the audience on the wrong side of the racism joke.” So they were playing with the wording a little bit in the edits, and they kept coming up with versions to make me happy, but they were essentially the same thing, and I finally said, “you are not going to make me happy. You’re dancing around it, and you’re clearly attached to this idea, and I want you to know that no version of this idea will make me happy. And if you’re afraid that I won’t show up to do promotion because of this bitterness, you can rest assured that that’s not true. I consider promoting a movie part of my duties, and I will show up nevertheless. But you can either use this campaign and know that I’m unhappy, or you can change it and know that I’m happy. That’s it. Stop trying.” And eventually they went with it, and it’s one of those things where I look back and I’ve very proud of the movie, but that’s the thing I remember.APA: Last question…for Harold and Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay, Viva La Union recorded a song for the soundtrack with the line, “I want my own Chinese baby” — what’s that about?JC: When I was thinking about it, I thought of a literal baby. There’s a kind of lack that children fill, that’s just the dark side of being a parent, I think. And there’s an accessory quality to Chinese babies in America, and I just think it’s funny. I just liked it. And you know, I would know people who would fawn over Asian babies more, and it got me to thinking, there’s this belief that Asian babies are really cute, and it got me thinking that our whole race is infantilized to some degree, and it manifests itself in different ways. You infantilize a woman, and she becomes eroticized. You infantilize a man, and he becomes emasculated. You infantilize a baby [laughs] — and it’s possible, it appears that you can infantilize a baby even more. [laughs] The babies need to be cuter than white babies. And it’s just a weird thing that I felt like said something about mainstream America’s relationship to Asians in general. So that’s where it came from. Also this interview: http://blog.angryasianman.com/2008/04/q-with-john-cho.html “And yes, I do feel a responsibility, and always have, and it’s been an odd burden for me. Even when I started and no one gave a shit, I was trying to avoid doing roles—and it’s no accident that I’ve never done something with a chop suey accent. It’s no accident that I’ve never played those parts. I strongly believe there are a lot of Asian American actors who think that that’s the price to pay before you get to wherever you’re going. And I take real issue with that. Because you have to maintain integrity from the start, and on a personal level, you have to not do something that’s going to make you sick to your stomach. But on a political level, how are things supposed to ever change if there’s someone willing to do it? I can tell you now, having worked in the business, that you can gather an army of people to hold picket signs and stand outside the studio, and say, “we destest this portrayal”… but it doesn’t matter if there’s a guy—who they know, a peer—who’s willing to do it, who stands in front of the crew and does the buck-tooth accent. If he or she is willing to do it, it makes the protestors look like extremists. It makes this guy look like the normal guy. Because we all work in the same industry. So the willingness of one actor negates a thousand protestors and a thousand angry letters.” (So I can see why Butawhiteman Cantbekhan playing Khan would be deeply upsetting to him, even if Cho wasn’t in this movie.) I love him 1000 times just for flawlessly articulating this racist absurdity in the most succinct and accurate way I’ve ever encountered. Ok, this actor is officially on my “pay attention to all his interviews now” list. Holy hell, what incredible, bold, brave statements to make in the midst of wanting to get work and wanting to deal with the world of film acting. Cho is the coolest.
Zoom
weareallfromearth: paradelle: crossedwires: niqaeli: I admit, I don’t know Cho that well, so I am glad there are other readings to be had! And if he is just calling it out simply because he’s tired of it and he feels comfortable doing so even on his own films now, I think that’s fantastic. There’s certainly plenty for him to be calling out. Heh. Well, I don’t know John Cho either. But he has talked about race & representation before* (and not in a ‘we’re all human, it doesn’t matter’ way), so it’s not completely ‘out of character’ for him to bring it up. I think it probably would be easier on him if he didn’t say anything, but I’m glad he does. *Re Harold & Kumar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHEkLBZI1IM 4:07 mark): If you have a Korean and an Indian guy as your leads, you must address race at some point in the movie. You must, because the audience is noting it, really. The other thing is, I think, comedy at its best, treads in taboo waters a little bit. It has to have that transgressive quality to it, and race is the biggest taboo in America. I mean, people are very reluctant to talk about race and yet when you do jokes about race, uh, that work, people are very happy to release tension and laugh about it. But it has been interesting. I’ll make an observation. During the first tour for the first movie, we were talking about race all the time with journalists. It was almost like a process— looking back, the first movie was more concerned with race, but we talked about it so much, I felt that it was in a way…a way of justifying our presence in a motion picture.And from an interview in 2009 http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/090703/article.asp?parentID=110145&gt:JC: I recall from the Harold and Kumar movies is my struggle with the advertisers. APA: What happened there? JC: There was all this racial humor in the movie, and the advertising department wanted to say “Starring the Asian guy in American Pie, and the Indian guy from Van Wilder…” and they did go with that, and they submitted that to me for approval, and I said, “I don’t like it.” They asked me why, and I explain it to them, and that was tricky because it’s difficult explaining to my own representatives, why that didn’t jibe with me, because everyone kind of felt like it was keeping in tone with the movie. And I said, “I don’t like it. We’re poking fun at racism in the movie all the time, but it puts the audience on the wrong side of the racism joke.” So they were playing with the wording a little bit in the edits, and they kept coming up with versions to make me happy, but they were essentially the same thing, and I finally said, “you are not going to make me happy. You’re dancing around it, and you’re clearly attached to this idea, and I want you to know that no version of this idea will make me happy. And if you’re afraid that I won’t show up to do promotion because of this bitterness, you can rest assured that that’s not true. I consider promoting a movie part of my duties, and I will show up nevertheless. But you can either use this campaign and know that I’m unhappy, or you can change it and know that I’m happy. That’s it. Stop trying.” And eventually they went with it, and it’s one of those things where I look back and I’ve very proud of the movie, but that’s the thing I remember.APA: Last question…for Harold and Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay, Viva La Union recorded a song for the soundtrack with the line, “I want my own Chinese baby” — what’s that about?JC: When I was thinking about it, I thought of a literal baby. There’s a kind of lack that children fill, that’s just the dark side of being a parent, I think. And there’s an accessory quality to Chinese babies in America, and I just think it’s funny. I just liked it. And you know, I would know people who would fawn over Asian babies more, and it got me to thinking, there’s this belief that Asian babies are really cute, and it got me thinking that our whole race is infantilized to some degree, and it manifests itself in different ways. You infantilize a woman, and she becomes eroticized. You infantilize a man, and he becomes emasculated. You infantilize a baby [laughs] — and it’s possible, it appears that you can infantilize a baby even more. [laughs] The babies need to be cuter than white babies. And it’s just a weird thing that I felt like said something about mainstream America’s relationship to Asians in general. So that’s where it came from. Also this interview: http://blog.angryasianman.com/2008/04/q-with-john-cho.html “And yes, I do feel a responsibility, and always have, and it’s been an odd burden for me. Even when I started and no one gave a shit, I was trying to avoid doing roles—and it’s no accident that I’ve never done something with a chop suey accent. It’s no accident that I’ve never played those parts. I strongly believe there are a lot of Asian American actors who think that that’s the price to pay before you get to wherever you’re going. And I take real issue with that. Because you have to maintain integrity from the start, and on a personal level, you have to not do something that’s going to make you sick to your stomach. But on a political level, how are things supposed to ever change if there’s someone willing to do it? I can tell you now, having worked in the business, that you can gather an army of people to hold picket signs and stand outside the studio, and say, “we destest this portrayal”… but it doesn’t matter if there’s a guy—who they know, a peer—who’s willing to do it, who stands in front of the crew and does the buck-tooth accent. If he or she is willing to do it, it makes the protestors look like extremists. It makes this guy look like the normal guy. Because we all work in the same industry. So the willingness of one actor negates a thousand protestors and a thousand angry letters.” (So I can see why Butawhiteman Cantbekhan playing Khan would be deeply upsetting to him, even if Cho wasn’t in this movie.) I love him 1000 times just for flawlessly articulating this racist absurdity in the most succinct and accurate way I’ve ever encountered. Ok, this actor is officially on my “pay attention to all his interviews now” list. Holy hell, what incredible, bold, brave statements to make in the midst of wanting to get work and wanting to deal with the world of film acting. Cho is the coolest.
Zoom
weareallfromearth: paradelle: crossedwires: niqaeli: I admit, I don’t know Cho that well, so I am glad there are other readings to be had! And if he is just calling it out simply because he’s tired of it and he feels comfortable doing so even on his own films now, I think that’s fantastic. There’s certainly plenty for him to be calling out. Heh. Well, I don’t know John Cho either. But he has talked about race & representation before* (and not in a ‘we’re all human, it doesn’t matter’ way), so it’s not completely ‘out of character’ for him to bring it up. I think it probably would be easier on him if he didn’t say anything, but I’m glad he does. *Re Harold & Kumar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHEkLBZI1IM 4:07 mark): If you have a Korean and an Indian guy as your leads, you must address race at some point in the movie. You must, because the audience is noting it, really. The other thing is, I think, comedy at its best, treads in taboo waters a little bit. It has to have that transgressive quality to it, and race is the biggest taboo in America. I mean, people are very reluctant to talk about race and yet when you do jokes about race, uh, that work, people are very happy to release tension and laugh about it. But it has been interesting. I’ll make an observation. During the first tour for the first movie, we were talking about race all the time with journalists. It was almost like a process— looking back, the first movie was more concerned with race, but we talked about it so much, I felt that it was in a way…a way of justifying our presence in a motion picture.And from an interview in 2009 http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/090703/article.asp?parentID=110145&gt:JC: I recall from the Harold and Kumar movies is my struggle with the advertisers. APA: What happened there? JC: There was all this racial humor in the movie, and the advertising department wanted to say “Starring the Asian guy in American Pie, and the Indian guy from Van Wilder…” and they did go with that, and they submitted that to me for approval, and I said, “I don’t like it.” They asked me why, and I explain it to them, and that was tricky because it’s difficult explaining to my own representatives, why that didn’t jibe with me, because everyone kind of felt like it was keeping in tone with the movie. And I said, “I don’t like it. We’re poking fun at racism in the movie all the time, but it puts the audience on the wrong side of the racism joke.” So they were playing with the wording a little bit in the edits, and they kept coming up with versions to make me happy, but they were essentially the same thing, and I finally said, “you are not going to make me happy. You’re dancing around it, and you’re clearly attached to this idea, and I want you to know that no version of this idea will make me happy. And if you’re afraid that I won’t show up to do promotion because of this bitterness, you can rest assured that that’s not true. I consider promoting a movie part of my duties, and I will show up nevertheless. But you can either use this campaign and know that I’m unhappy, or you can change it and know that I’m happy. That’s it. Stop trying.” And eventually they went with it, and it’s one of those things where I look back and I’ve very proud of the movie, but that’s the thing I remember.APA: Last question…for Harold and Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay, Viva La Union recorded a song for the soundtrack with the line, “I want my own Chinese baby” — what’s that about?JC: When I was thinking about it, I thought of a literal baby. There’s a kind of lack that children fill, that’s just the dark side of being a parent, I think. And there’s an accessory quality to Chinese babies in America, and I just think it’s funny. I just liked it. And you know, I would know people who would fawn over Asian babies more, and it got me to thinking, there’s this belief that Asian babies are really cute, and it got me thinking that our whole race is infantilized to some degree, and it manifests itself in different ways. You infantilize a woman, and she becomes eroticized. You infantilize a man, and he becomes emasculated. You infantilize a baby [laughs] — and it’s possible, it appears that you can infantilize a baby even more. [laughs] The babies need to be cuter than white babies. And it’s just a weird thing that I felt like said something about mainstream America’s relationship to Asians in general. So that’s where it came from. Also this interview: http://blog.angryasianman.com/2008/04/q-with-john-cho.html “And yes, I do feel a responsibility, and always have, and it’s been an odd burden for me. Even when I started and no one gave a shit, I was trying to avoid doing roles—and it’s no accident that I’ve never done something with a chop suey accent. It’s no accident that I’ve never played those parts. I strongly believe there are a lot of Asian American actors who think that that’s the price to pay before you get to wherever you’re going. And I take real issue with that. Because you have to maintain integrity from the start, and on a personal level, you have to not do something that’s going to make you sick to your stomach. But on a political level, how are things supposed to ever change if there’s someone willing to do it? I can tell you now, having worked in the business, that you can gather an army of people to hold picket signs and stand outside the studio, and say, “we destest this portrayal”… but it doesn’t matter if there’s a guy—who they know, a peer—who’s willing to do it, who stands in front of the crew and does the buck-tooth accent. If he or she is willing to do it, it makes the protestors look like extremists. It makes this guy look like the normal guy. Because we all work in the same industry. So the willingness of one actor negates a thousand protestors and a thousand angry letters.” (So I can see why Butawhiteman Cantbekhan playing Khan would be deeply upsetting to him, even if Cho wasn’t in this movie.) I love him 1000 times just for flawlessly articulating this racist absurdity in the most succinct and accurate way I’ve ever encountered. Ok, this actor is officially on my “pay attention to all his interviews now” list. Holy hell, what incredible, bold, brave statements to make in the midst of wanting to get work and wanting to deal with the world of film acting. Cho is the coolest.
Zoom
weareallfromearth: paradelle: crossedwires: niqaeli: I admit, I don’t know Cho that well, so I am glad there are other readings to be had! And if he is just calling it out simply because he’s tired of it and he feels comfortable doing so even on his own films now, I think that’s fantastic. There’s certainly plenty for him to be calling out. Heh. Well, I don’t know John Cho either. But he has talked about race & representation before* (and not in a ‘we’re all human, it doesn’t matter’ way), so it’s not completely ‘out of character’ for him to bring it up. I think it probably would be easier on him if he didn’t say anything, but I’m glad he does. *Re Harold & Kumar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHEkLBZI1IM 4:07 mark): If you have a Korean and an Indian guy as your leads, you must address race at some point in the movie. You must, because the audience is noting it, really. The other thing is, I think, comedy at its best, treads in taboo waters a little bit. It has to have that transgressive quality to it, and race is the biggest taboo in America. I mean, people are very reluctant to talk about race and yet when you do jokes about race, uh, that work, people are very happy to release tension and laugh about it. But it has been interesting. I’ll make an observation. During the first tour for the first movie, we were talking about race all the time with journalists. It was almost like a process— looking back, the first movie was more concerned with race, but we talked about it so much, I felt that it was in a way…a way of justifying our presence in a motion picture.And from an interview in 2009 http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/090703/article.asp?parentID=110145&gt:JC: I recall from the Harold and Kumar movies is my struggle with the advertisers. APA: What happened there? JC: There was all this racial humor in the movie, and the advertising department wanted to say “Starring the Asian guy in American Pie, and the Indian guy from Van Wilder…” and they did go with that, and they submitted that to me for approval, and I said, “I don’t like it.” They asked me why, and I explain it to them, and that was tricky because it’s difficult explaining to my own representatives, why that didn’t jibe with me, because everyone kind of felt like it was keeping in tone with the movie. And I said, “I don’t like it. We’re poking fun at racism in the movie all the time, but it puts the audience on the wrong side of the racism joke.” So they were playing with the wording a little bit in the edits, and they kept coming up with versions to make me happy, but they were essentially the same thing, and I finally said, “you are not going to make me happy. You’re dancing around it, and you’re clearly attached to this idea, and I want you to know that no version of this idea will make me happy. And if you’re afraid that I won’t show up to do promotion because of this bitterness, you can rest assured that that’s not true. I consider promoting a movie part of my duties, and I will show up nevertheless. But you can either use this campaign and know that I’m unhappy, or you can change it and know that I’m happy. That’s it. Stop trying.” And eventually they went with it, and it’s one of those things where I look back and I’ve very proud of the movie, but that’s the thing I remember.APA: Last question…for Harold and Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay, Viva La Union recorded a song for the soundtrack with the line, “I want my own Chinese baby” — what’s that about?JC: When I was thinking about it, I thought of a literal baby. There’s a kind of lack that children fill, that’s just the dark side of being a parent, I think. And there’s an accessory quality to Chinese babies in America, and I just think it’s funny. I just liked it. And you know, I would know people who would fawn over Asian babies more, and it got me to thinking, there’s this belief that Asian babies are really cute, and it got me thinking that our whole race is infantilized to some degree, and it manifests itself in different ways. You infantilize a woman, and she becomes eroticized. You infantilize a man, and he becomes emasculated. You infantilize a baby [laughs] — and it’s possible, it appears that you can infantilize a baby even more. [laughs] The babies need to be cuter than white babies. And it’s just a weird thing that I felt like said something about mainstream America’s relationship to Asians in general. So that’s where it came from. Also this interview: http://blog.angryasianman.com/2008/04/q-with-john-cho.html “And yes, I do feel a responsibility, and always have, and it’s been an odd burden for me. Even when I started and no one gave a shit, I was trying to avoid doing roles—and it’s no accident that I’ve never done something with a chop suey accent. It’s no accident that I’ve never played those parts. I strongly believe there are a lot of Asian American actors who think that that’s the price to pay before you get to wherever you’re going. And I take real issue with that. Because you have to maintain integrity from the start, and on a personal level, you have to not do something that’s going to make you sick to your stomach. But on a political level, how are things supposed to ever change if there’s someone willing to do it? I can tell you now, having worked in the business, that you can gather an army of people to hold picket signs and stand outside the studio, and say, “we destest this portrayal”… but it doesn’t matter if there’s a guy—who they know, a peer—who’s willing to do it, who stands in front of the crew and does the buck-tooth accent. If he or she is willing to do it, it makes the protestors look like extremists. It makes this guy look like the normal guy. Because we all work in the same industry. So the willingness of one actor negates a thousand protestors and a thousand angry letters.” (So I can see why Butawhiteman Cantbekhan playing Khan would be deeply upsetting to him, even if Cho wasn’t in this movie.) I love him 1000 times just for flawlessly articulating this racist absurdity in the most succinct and accurate way I’ve ever encountered. Ok, this actor is officially on my “pay attention to all his interviews now” list. Holy hell, what incredible, bold, brave statements to make in the midst of wanting to get work and wanting to deal with the world of film acting. Cho is the coolest.
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weareallfromearth:

paradelle:

crossedwires:

niqaeli:

I admit, I don’t know Cho that well, so I am glad there are other readings to be had!

And if he is just calling it out simply because he’s tired of it and he feels comfortable doing so even on his own films now, I think that’s fantastic. There’s certainly plenty for him to be calling out.

Heh. Well, I don’t know John Cho either. But he has talked about race & representation before* (and not in a ‘we’re all human, it doesn’t matter’ way), so it’s not completely ‘out of character’ for him to bring it up. I think it probably would be easier on him if he didn’t say anything, but I’m glad he does.

*Re Harold & Kumar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHEkLBZI1IM 4:07 mark): If you have a Korean and an Indian guy as your leads, you must address race at some point in the movie. You must, because the audience is noting it, really. The other thing is, I think, comedy at its best, treads in taboo waters a little bit. It has to have that transgressive quality to it, and race is the biggest taboo in America. I mean, people are very reluctant to talk about race and yet when you do jokes about race, uh, that work, people are very happy to release tension and laugh about it. But it has been interesting. I’ll make an observation. During the first tour for the first movie, we were talking about race all the time with journalists. It was almost like a process— looking back, the first movie was more concerned with race, but we talked about it so much, I felt that it was in a way…a way of justifying our presence in a motion picture.

And from an interview in 2009 http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu/090703/article.asp?parentID=110145&gt:

JC: I recall from the Harold and Kumar movies is my struggle with the advertisers.

APA: What happened there?

JC: There was all this racial humor in the movie, and the advertising department wanted to say “Starring the Asian guy in American Pie, and the Indian guy from Van Wilder…” and they did go with that, and they submitted that to me for approval, and I said, “I don’t like it.” They asked me why, and I explain it to them, and that was tricky because it’s difficult explaining to my own representatives, why that didn’t jibe with me, because everyone kind of felt like it was keeping in tone with the movie. And I said, “I don’t like it. We’re poking fun at racism in the movie all the time, but it puts the audience on the wrong side of the racism joke.” So they were playing with the wording a little bit in the edits, and they kept coming up with versions to make me happy, but they were essentially the same thing, and I finally said, “you are not going to make me happy. You’re dancing around it, and you’re clearly attached to this idea, and I want you to know that no version of this idea will make me happy. And if you’re afraid that I won’t show up to do promotion because of this bitterness, you can rest assured that that’s not true. I consider promoting a movie part of my duties, and I will show up nevertheless. But you can either use this campaign and know that I’m unhappy, or you can change it and know that I’m happy. That’s it. Stop trying.” And eventually they went with it, and it’s one of those things where I look back and I’ve very proud of the movie, but that’s the thing I remember.

APA: Last question…for Harold and Kumar Escape From Guantanamo Bay, Viva La Union recorded a song for the soundtrack with the line, “I want my own Chinese baby” — what’s that about?

JC: When I was thinking about it, I thought of a literal baby. There’s a kind of lack that children fill, that’s just the dark side of being a parent, I think. And there’s an accessory quality to Chinese babies in America, and I just think it’s funny. I just liked it. And you know, I would know people who would fawn over Asian babies more, and it got me to thinking, there’s this belief that Asian babies are really cute, and it got me thinking that our whole race is infantilized to some degree, and it manifests itself in different ways. You infantilize a woman, and she becomes eroticized. You infantilize a man, and he becomes emasculated. You infantilize a baby [laughs] — and it’s possible, it appears that you can infantilize a baby even more. [laughs] The babies need to be cuter than white babies. And it’s just a weird thing that I felt like said something about mainstream America’s relationship to Asians in general. So that’s where it came from.

Also this interview: http://blog.angryasianman.com/2008/04/q-with-john-cho.html

“And yes, I do feel a responsibility, and always have, and it’s been an odd burden for me. Even when I started and no one gave a shit, I was trying to avoid doing roles—and it’s no accident that I’ve never done something with a chop suey accent. It’s no accident that I’ve never played those parts. I strongly believe there are a lot of Asian American actors who think that that’s the price to pay before you get to wherever you’re going. And I take real issue with that. Because you have to maintain integrity from the start, and on a personal level, you have to not do something that’s going to make you sick to your stomach.

But on a political level, how are things supposed to ever change if there’s someone willing to do it? I can tell you now, having worked in the business, that you can gather an army of people to hold picket signs and stand outside the studio, and say, “we destest this portrayal”… but it doesn’t matter if there’s a guy—who they know, a peer—who’s willing to do it, who stands in front of the crew and does the buck-tooth accent. If he or she is willing to do it, it makes the protestors look like extremists. It makes this guy look like the normal guy. Because we all work in the same industry. So the willingness of one actor negates a thousand protestors and a thousand angry letters.”

(So I can see why Butawhiteman Cantbekhan playing Khan would be deeply upsetting to him, even if Cho wasn’t in this movie.)

I love him 1000 times just for flawlessly articulating this racist absurdity in the most succinct and accurate way I’ve ever encountered.

Ok, this actor is officially on my “pay attention to all his interviews now” list. Holy hell, what incredible, bold, brave statements to make in the midst of wanting to get work and wanting to deal with the world of film acting. Cho is the coolest.

(Source: whitelaws)

booksandwildthings: giving-myself-to-ashes: admiringthefuckingscenery: bl00db3nder: And the movie couldn’t have looked like this BECAUSE?!? If cosplayers had made the ATLA movie, it would have probably won some Oscars… Seriously, this was made by teenagers in their spare time because they were bored and it’s still better quality than the movie that took millions of dollars to make.
Zoom
booksandwildthings: giving-myself-to-ashes: admiringthefuckingscenery: bl00db3nder: And the movie couldn’t have looked like this BECAUSE?!? If cosplayers had made the ATLA movie, it would have probably won some Oscars… Seriously, this was made by teenagers in their spare time because they were bored and it’s still better quality than the movie that took millions of dollars to make.
Zoom
booksandwildthings: giving-myself-to-ashes: admiringthefuckingscenery: bl00db3nder: And the movie couldn’t have looked like this BECAUSE?!? If cosplayers had made the ATLA movie, it would have probably won some Oscars… Seriously, this was made by teenagers in their spare time because they were bored and it’s still better quality than the movie that took millions of dollars to make.
Zoom
booksandwildthings: giving-myself-to-ashes: admiringthefuckingscenery: bl00db3nder: And the movie couldn’t have looked like this BECAUSE?!? If cosplayers had made the ATLA movie, it would have probably won some Oscars… Seriously, this was made by teenagers in their spare time because they were bored and it’s still better quality than the movie that took millions of dollars to make.
Zoom

booksandwildthings:

giving-myself-to-ashes:

admiringthefuckingscenery:

bl00db3nder:

And the movie couldn’t have looked like this BECAUSE?!?

If cosplayers had made the ATLA movie, it would have probably won some Oscars…

image

Seriously, this was made by teenagers in their spare time because they were bored and it’s still better quality than the movie that took millions of dollars to make.

(Source: magsley)

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